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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 573 for the 6th of

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October 2019 Rashad Saunders here with

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you from Sydney Australia a little bit

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overcast today but I think it's going to

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warm up it's a long weekend holiday here

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in New South Wales coming up on this

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week's show we head to New Zealand we

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talked to Craig Scheer the chair of the

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New Zealand sceptics briefly we

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discussed the upcoming New Zealand

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skeptics conference in Christchurch

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later on in November and then we talked

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about a so-called psychic medium healer

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Janette Wilson who has been making

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extraordinary claims about healing

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cancer and various other things and

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she's made these claims directly herself

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not via some third party or in some

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confused way or can be interpreted as

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such direct claims we're going to talk

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about the action New Zealand skeptics

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are taking to try and stop this sort of

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nonsense going on following that a very

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important story with Heidi Robinson

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about a naturopath in this country who

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has been banned from providing any

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health service whether on paid or

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voluntary basis to any person banned for

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her outrageous and ridiculous claims and

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treatments a very important story indeed

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and it sets a good precedent for future

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action against quakes around the country

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report not to be missed then to run off

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the show Maynard's spooky action may not

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hits to sydney skeptics in the pub and

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he asks the pub goers what they think

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about the action in New Zealand or

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skeptics taking action preemptive action

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I guess you'd say against people like

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this woman claiming outrageous claims

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when it comes to people's health

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congratulations to my friend Brian

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Dunning at the skeptoid podcast who

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celebrated 13 years why not why not

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he had a marathon live event just the

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other day where many many of my friends

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in fact took part in live video hookups

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with Brian throughout a 13 hour marathon

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that noise you can hear in the

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background is more dekat you rest there

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and I'll finish the show all right

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good a 13 hour marathon many guests from

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all around the world live video hookups

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a few technical hitches here and there

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which you would expect I'll link to that

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in the show notes and to the timecode

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where you can see yours truly appearing

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and it occurred to me that it's amazing

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that these days just individuals in

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their own homes can arrange to be part

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of a worldwide video hookup it's

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extraordinary

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congratulations Brian Dunning stay tuned

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at the end of the episode for more

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announcements from me but now it's time

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for me to run downstairs being careful

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not to trip over these cats where's your

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sister

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oh now she's noticed there are birds

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flying outside the window uh-huh I know

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where you want to be well I run

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downstairs have a coffee and maybe a

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little bit of a handy on toast honey on

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toast how long has it been since you've

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enjoyed simple honey on toast hmm well I

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do that I hope you enjoy the skeptic

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zone

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[Music]

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and joining me now all the way from

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beautiful Auckland New Zealand it's the

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chair of the New Zealand skeptics Craig

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Shira hello Craig

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and I Richard how you doing I'm doing

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really well I've I've come back to

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Sydney Australia for a while to keep

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doing the skeptics own in this part of

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the world because my listeners know I am

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spending a bit of time in the United

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States where I wish I was right now of

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course was in New Zealand to get ready

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for your upcoming conference before we

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jump into other matters how's that

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shaping up it's going to be absolutely

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fantastic so the conference is on the

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last weekend of November so 29th of

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November through to the 1st of December

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it's being held in Christchurch we've

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got a fantastic venue for it it's the

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Great Hall which is used to be used to

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be part of the University of Canterbury

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and it's actually where Ernest

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Rutherford head as laboratory so it's a

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really amazing venue and and when you

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sort of actually see the the hall itself

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it has sort of connotations of of the

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Great Hall for how the Harry Potter they

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could seem so we're really looking

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forward to that that's gonna be

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fantastic

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and we start on Friday night we're

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having a sort of a social event in a

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place called Rick Eden house which is

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supposed to be haunted so that's going

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to be very interesting

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so and and of course as you've got in

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Australia we've got the skeptics guide

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to the universe coming over yeah so all

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all of those people are going to be

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joining us we're very excited about that

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and we've also got susan gerbic and mark

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it would coming from the US and of

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course Susan and Mark have been very

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active recently with their operation

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pizza roll and exposing mmm the hot

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reading of Thomas John the supposed

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psychic so

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yeah this is going to be really

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interesting to hear all about that and

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we've got some some local speakers as

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well on a huge variety of topics from

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physics to forensic psychology to

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medicine so all in all I think it's

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going to be a great conference ticket

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sales are going very very well so

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there'll be tons of like-minded people

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at the conference to spend time with wow

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I wish I was one of them where can

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people find out more just quickly so the

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conference website is conference dot

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skeptics ins it and the the Society of

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universal also doing a private show

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before the conference begins on the

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Friday afternoon and you can find

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details of that on the conference

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website as well well Oh your Christmases

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of coming at once there you know

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newzealand for the for the conference

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now here's an interesting tie in in in

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fact it was during a New Zealand

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skeptics conference in Christchurch in

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2004 where the name Janette Wilson where

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I first came across the name Janette

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Wilson she was doing the rounds at the

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time and I've actually got a videotape

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there is dating is's another videotape

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sure which I transferred to a digitally

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long time ago of her doing some live

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cold readings you know sort of a an

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audience routine we've seen many times

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before and also a story that was

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featured on TV NZ about her one of the

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networks are one of the investigative

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type programs and then I seem to

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remember the joke was that she was world

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famous in New Zealand she wasn't very

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well-known certainly not in Australia

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and then I didn't hear anything about

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her until relatively recently where it's

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being quite quite the scene in New

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Zealand and New Zealand skeptics are

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really making a big fuss about her at

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the moment

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tell me what's changed yeah so um last

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year but by the early this year actually

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we became aware of her

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doing a show called psychic surgery and

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that sort of piqued our interest so we

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sent one of our committee members along

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to it just to see what was going on and

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what she claims to do is be able to heal

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people she claims that she's got a team

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of spirit surgeons that she's talking to

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and they're guiding her and able to work

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on people to heal or cure whatever ails

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them these are generally things like

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sore backs and arthritis and so on so

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things that are sort of fairly

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nonspecific and difficult to tell if

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somebody's actually had an effect and

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very susceptible to placebo effects of

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course anyway so at one of our committee

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members went along and he was actually

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quite horrified by what he saw the that

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it seems the her show is very much

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attractive ulnar abrel harriman stage

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who was very close to sort of having a

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breakdown

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and she did who work on him so we got

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quite concerned about that and at the

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time she was also advertising that she

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will be doing shows in the UK as well

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because she's actually from the UK yeah

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she has a very interesting history she

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used to be a bank manager and now she's

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turned into a psychic which is kind of

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an interesting career progression and I

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think it is very interesting and I don't

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think many people can claim that you

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know what I'm going to play a short clip

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now because her her own claims I think

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in the end are going to damn her yeah

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and skeptics get accused as sometimes of

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making things up or exaggerating or

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whatever but let's hear directly from

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the woman herself during an interview on

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New Zealand radio exactly what she

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claims she can do a woman who builds

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herself as a psychic surgeon sees it

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to shut down who shows are unfair and

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she has helped heal people with many

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illnesses including Parkinson's and

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brain tumors the New Zealand skeptics

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group has emailed all the venues booked

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for Janette Wilson's tour in a bid to

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get the shows shut down the group says

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the tour is dangerous because Ms Wilson

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a former bank manager turned psychic

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claims to heal sick people by working

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with God and talking with spirit

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surgeons Janette Wilson says at least 10

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people suffering from various ailments

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are healed during every show I asked her

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how she knows the healed because all of

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a sudden they come over like that was

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paralyzed or they can see out of an eye

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they couldn't see out of or their

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breathing in post and they come walk

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along distance and they couldn't or

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they're out their wheelchair it is that

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- that's it yes I've worked on people

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with brain tumors cancers I've worked on

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people with things like fibromyalgia

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chronic fatigue you name it I've worked

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on those conditions occasionally I will

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find a person I can't help but usually

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you say I'm able to help them so I'm

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understanding this properly through

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whatever spirits work through you you

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have cured cancer as well yes I can say

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that yes I've got clients that I could

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provide testimonies that that has

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happened given that you are using well

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spirits or they're using you which is

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why you want to look at it there is

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involved - Sara I'm working with God

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from God do you have to be a believers

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in a few - not you sorry - want about

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here not doing this for to show I'm not

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doing the shows it wouldn't purchase

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because I don't bring a belief systems

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into it people can be skeptical they can

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be a theist it absolutely doesn't matter

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and you see there's still a possibility

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you could heal them yeah so there we are

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Craig it can't be more blatant than that

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during some of those clips she said

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quite clearly and plainly that she can

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heal cancers now I don't know about New

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Zealand but in Australia there are laws

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about making such claims yeah

276
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I'm unsure of what the legal status here

277
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is I think she's probably just being

278
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treated as a crackpot really but it is

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feeling right obviously when she's

280
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making those sorts of claims it's pretty

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serious

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well I think what actually gave her

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exposure was that we wrote to all the

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venues who were going to host her around

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New Zealand to say hey look this is what

286
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she's doing we think we should actually

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cancel your hire and then we've got to

288
00:13:43,390 --> 00:13:41,180
the media with that and tell them that's

289
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what we were doing so it was quite

290
00:13:47,380 --> 00:13:45,740
fortunate Radio New Zealand picked up on

291
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the story and they they interviewed me

292
00:13:51,370 --> 00:13:48,890
and I told them what we were trying to

293
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do and then of course four ballots they

294
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:53,630
went and interviewed her and so that

295
00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:55,850
clip you've just played as some of that

296
00:14:00,220 --> 00:13:58,130
interview and it really is worth

297
00:14:03,790 --> 00:14:00,230
listening to the whole clip and she's

298
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just really digs herself into a very

299
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:07,160
very deep hole and anybody listening to

300
00:14:13,660 --> 00:14:10,730
that will get a fairly clear indication

301
00:14:16,330 --> 00:14:13,670
of the sort of weird and crackpot ideas

302
00:14:19,150 --> 00:14:16,340
that she actually has yeah absolutely

303
00:14:21,790 --> 00:14:19,160
folks look a link to the full interview

304
00:14:23,980 --> 00:14:21,800
with her on this week's show notes but

305
00:14:27,130 --> 00:14:23,990
what what I'll do right now is I'll read

306
00:14:28,780 --> 00:14:27,140
out the item that appeared in the NZ

307
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:28,790
Herald which was really more or less

308
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:30,560
what you said on the radio yes exactly

309
00:14:40,930 --> 00:14:35,450
and this comes to us from the NZ Herald

310
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:40,940
at n Z Harold Koh NZ skeptics aim to

311
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:44,240
shut down NZ tour by spiritual healer a

312
00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:47,600
group aiming to stop a national tour by

313
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:50,510
the New Zealand based psychic is

314
00:14:56,170 --> 00:14:52,850
challenging the ethics of the host

315
00:14:58,450 --> 00:14:56,180
venues the New Zealand skeptics group

316
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:58,460
has emailed all the venues booked for

317
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:01,040
the tour of spiritual medium Jeannette

318
00:15:07,270 --> 00:15:04,490
Wilson in a bid to shut it down the New

319
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:07,280
Zealand skeptics chair Craig Shira told

320
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:09,730
the Morning Report the tour was

321
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:12,890
dangerous because Ms Wilson was claiming

322
00:15:19,780 --> 00:15:15,650
to heal people of illnesses by talking

323
00:15:21,850 --> 00:15:19,790
to spirit surgeons quote you often have

324
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:21,860
psychics touring the country doing

325
00:15:26,770 --> 00:15:24,410
entertainment style shows and they're

326
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doing things we call cold reading

327
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:28,390
where they're sort of attempting to

328
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:31,210
pretending to contact dead people

329
00:15:36,430 --> 00:15:34,000
unfortunately it's for entertainment and

330
00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:36,440
unfortunately there are people in the

331
00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:39,350
audience who have lost loved ones they

332
00:15:45,730 --> 00:15:41,750
are grieving and we think it's pretty

333
00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:45,740
sad end quote mr. schirra said the

334
00:15:50,980 --> 00:15:48,260
series planned by miss Wilson was at a

335
00:15:54,340 --> 00:15:50,990
different level as she was claiming to

336
00:15:57,130 --> 00:15:54,350
be able to talk with quote spirit

337
00:16:00,460 --> 00:15:57,140
surgeons on the other side in quote and

338
00:16:03,220 --> 00:16:00,470
heal people of illnesses they have quote

339
00:16:05,830 --> 00:16:03,230
we think it's pretty dangerous as it

340
00:16:08,290 --> 00:16:05,840
seems there's no evidence that she can

341
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:08,300
actually do this so we would really like

342
00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:09,920
to shut it down end quote

343
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:12,350
he said people with serious illnesses

344
00:16:17,650 --> 00:16:14,930
might put stock in her healing rather

345
00:16:19,810 --> 00:16:17,660
than visiting a qualified doctor quote

346
00:16:21,790 --> 00:16:19,820
there's also financial harm through

347
00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:21,800
people having to pay money to have this

348
00:16:26,950 --> 00:16:25,430
sort of thing done to them in quote mr.

349
00:16:29,380 --> 00:16:26,960
schirra said it was fair enough that

350
00:16:31,950 --> 00:16:29,390
people who wanted to pay to attend such

351
00:16:34,270 --> 00:16:31,960
events should be free to do so but

352
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:34,280
society should be protecting vulnerable

353
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:36,410
people from the mental and financial

354
00:16:41,530 --> 00:16:39,290
harm that might arise from them

355
00:16:43,750 --> 00:16:41,540
attending these events the group has

356
00:16:47,020 --> 00:16:43,760
emailed all the venues hosting the tour

357
00:16:49,270 --> 00:16:47,030
but so far no city councils or venues

358
00:16:52,750 --> 00:16:49,280
have pledged to take any action to stop

359
00:16:55,390 --> 00:16:52,760
the show mr. schirra said only one had

360
00:16:58,510 --> 00:16:55,400
responded so far to say it had no

361
00:17:01,930 --> 00:16:58,520
control over what was booked quote my

362
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:01,940
response to that would be they really

363
00:17:06,370 --> 00:17:04,160
need to look at their ethics and ask if

364
00:17:08,980 --> 00:17:06,380
it's really ethical to promote this sort

365
00:17:11,620 --> 00:17:08,990
of behavior at their venues where people

366
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:11,630
are actually going to be harmed we've

367
00:17:15,910 --> 00:17:13,760
also talked to the Auckland City Council

368
00:17:19,210 --> 00:17:15,920
who say they can't shut down a show

369
00:17:21,550 --> 00:17:19,220
unless something unlawful happens that's

370
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:21,560
a pretty high bar to breach my guess in

371
00:17:28,030 --> 00:17:24,770
quote Ms Wilson who has been working as

372
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:28,040
a spiritual healer for 25 years runs

373
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:30,710
events workshops and consultations

374
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:33,770
around New Zealand and the UK mr.

375
00:17:37,810 --> 00:17:35,510
schirra said the skeptics sister

376
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:37,820
organisation in the UK ran a similar

377
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:39,770
campaign to have her tour shut down

378
00:17:43,299 --> 00:17:40,370
there

379
00:17:45,279 --> 00:17:43,309
quote they contacted all the venues

380
00:17:47,470 --> 00:17:45,289
there and they managed to get quite a

381
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:47,480
few venues to pull out of the tour

382
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:49,610
that's what we're hoping will happen

383
00:17:54,909 --> 00:17:52,610
here as well in quote Ms Wilson is about

384
00:17:57,490 --> 00:17:54,919
to embark on a nationwide tour of New

385
00:18:00,940 --> 00:17:57,500
Zealand conducting psychic surgeries and

386
00:18:03,730 --> 00:18:00,950
workshops tickets range from $40 for a

387
00:18:06,669 --> 00:18:03,740
two-hour show where a team of spirit

388
00:18:10,510 --> 00:18:06,679
world doctors and surgeons claim to

389
00:18:13,330 --> 00:18:10,520
remove pain and restriction quote often

390
00:18:16,450 --> 00:18:13,340
within just minutes end quote

391
00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:16,460
- three hundred and fifty dollars for a

392
00:18:21,870 --> 00:18:19,220
weekend workshop in Invercargill which

393
00:18:25,870 --> 00:18:21,880
aims to train others to become healers

394
00:18:28,450 --> 00:18:25,880
and that comes to us from the New

395
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:28,460
Zealand Herald in Zed Harold Cohen said

396
00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:31,130
and that report was taken from Radio New

397
00:18:35,620 --> 00:18:33,260
Zealand so there we are Craig that was

398
00:18:39,789 --> 00:18:35,630
more or less what you said on radio yeah

399
00:18:42,490 --> 00:18:39,799
so we so when we knew that she was going

400
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:42,500
to the UK we contacted Michael Marshall

401
00:18:46,269 --> 00:18:44,450
of the good thinking Society over the

402
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:46,279
year and he took I get the calls in the

403
00:18:51,820 --> 00:18:50,240
UK he wrote to the venues in the UK and

404
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:51,830
he actually managed to get quite a few

405
00:18:55,710 --> 00:18:53,510
of them cancelled which was really good

406
00:18:58,419 --> 00:18:55,720
work so we thought we would try and

407
00:19:00,279 --> 00:18:58,429
replicate that here in New Zealand and

408
00:19:03,610 --> 00:19:00,289
see if we can get some of the venues to

409
00:19:06,399 --> 00:19:03,620
guess all her - well unfortunately it

410
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:06,409
seems that the profit motive is is

411
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:10,010
stronger than the ethical motive so so

412
00:19:12,909 --> 00:19:11,450
that I don't think we're going to have

413
00:19:15,130 --> 00:19:12,919
much success with that but I think

414
00:19:17,139 --> 00:19:15,140
really our main aim was to actually get

415
00:19:21,789 --> 00:19:17,149
some publicity out of this and just

416
00:19:23,860 --> 00:19:21,799
expose her so we had another one of the

417
00:19:28,210 --> 00:19:23,870
skeptics went along to her show here in

418
00:19:30,610 --> 00:19:28,220
Auckland this week and one thing she

419
00:19:33,970 --> 00:19:30,620
says at her shows is that skip XD come

420
00:19:36,250 --> 00:19:33,980
to her shows and if they did they would

421
00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:36,260
see how fantastic she was well we had

422
00:19:42,159 --> 00:19:38,390
one of our skeptics tuned up and he

423
00:19:43,419 --> 00:19:42,169
basically reported that there was there

424
00:19:45,580 --> 00:19:43,429
was a woman there who was pretty

425
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,590
emotional and had a lot of sort of

426
00:19:52,210 --> 00:19:47,200
emotional baggage and it was quite

427
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:52,220
embarrassing to see her on stage and he

428
00:19:56,290 --> 00:19:54,290
was a skeptic in the audience he didn't

429
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:56,300
if I himself as such but really you'd

430
00:20:00,040 --> 00:19:57,770
think that he wouldn't have to because

431
00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:00,050
the spirit surgeons would tell Janette

432
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:02,590
that there was a skeptic in the audience

433
00:20:07,450 --> 00:20:05,030
you you would think you would think and

434
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:07,460
she does something that I've seen other

435
00:20:12,790 --> 00:20:10,850
people do before in this sort of line in

436
00:20:15,490 --> 00:20:12,800
other psychics and whatnot and they'll

437
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:15,500
say that it's not them it's not them

438
00:20:19,150 --> 00:20:17,450
doing anything it's that they're sort of

439
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:19,160
just merely the conduit you know it's

440
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,290
really God that does all the healing all

441
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:23,360
their spirit surgeons or somebody Asha

442
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:25,010
and she's yeah she's definitely saying

443
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:28,010
that it's this is also regard then yeah

444
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:30,530
yeah so it's really passing the buck and

445
00:20:35,770 --> 00:20:33,440
and she's you know absolving yourself of

446
00:20:37,780 --> 00:20:35,780
any responsibility well listen it

447
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:37,790
doesn't work like that you're the one

448
00:20:41,890 --> 00:20:39,530
making the claims people are going along

449
00:20:44,020 --> 00:20:41,900
to see your show you can't then turn

450
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:44,030
around and say don't blame me it's God

451
00:20:48,340 --> 00:20:45,770
that's doing it oh it's God we can't

452
00:20:49,420 --> 00:20:48,350
touch it yeah it's an old trick it's an

453
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:49,430
old trick and if you're listening

454
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:51,770
Jeannette Wilson it won't wash it's an

455
00:20:58,720 --> 00:20:54,410
old trick and we've seen it all before

456
00:21:01,180 --> 00:20:58,730
yeah yeah so she's a real anti science

457
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:01,190
person she's got the whole constellation

458
00:21:09,180 --> 00:21:04,250
of whoo she's anti vex she's a client

459
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:09,190
climate change denier she's anti 5g

460
00:21:15,150 --> 00:21:12,410
David she's anti yet an anti fluoride I

461
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:15,160
saw as well and they also yeah she's

462
00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:17,600
absolutely gone down the rabbit hole of

463
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:19,670
conspiracy theories because now she's

464
00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:21,710
equated the New Zealand skeptics with

465
00:21:26,860 --> 00:21:24,590
Big Pharma or who's paying you or and I

466
00:21:30,130 --> 00:21:26,870
noticed she even went on to your

467
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:30,140
Facebook page to put a big rant and that

468
00:21:34,270 --> 00:21:31,970
really does tell us something about her

469
00:21:36,670 --> 00:21:34,280
mental state I think yeah I think so

470
00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:36,680
and she's certainly making other money

471
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:41,150
out of it his shows are only $40 so

472
00:21:45,310 --> 00:21:42,320
she's not making a lot of money out of

473
00:21:48,250 --> 00:21:45,320
his shows but what she does do as she

474
00:21:49,150 --> 00:21:48,260
tries to sell this thing called a purple

475
00:21:53,020 --> 00:21:49,160
Bryce powder

476
00:21:56,770 --> 00:21:53,030
who and it's apparently micronized

477
00:21:58,780 --> 00:21:56,780
purple rice hmm and if you if she gets

478
00:22:03,070 --> 00:21:58,790
you signed up for that you're paying

479
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:03,080
$100 a month for before this powder that

480
00:22:08,049 --> 00:22:05,840
you meant to take everyday and we had a

481
00:22:09,610 --> 00:22:08,059
an investigative journalist

482
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:09,620
here in New Zealand we had an article on

483
00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:13,370
her and apparently she's making $20,000

484
00:22:21,610 --> 00:22:15,440
a month out of the sales of that purple

485
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:21,620
rice so yes nice money where yes we're

486
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:22,970
in the wrong we're certainly in the

487
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:25,970
wrong business with now people can find

488
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:28,250
out more about your activities in your

489
00:22:34,450 --> 00:22:32,000
investigations and your your work when

490
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:34,460
it comes to things like Janette Wilson

491
00:22:38,590 --> 00:22:36,320
and other people when they come to the

492
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:38,600
conference and again folks are linked to

493
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:41,210
that in the show notes and but people in

494
00:22:46,269 --> 00:22:43,129
New Zealand of course can take part in

495
00:22:48,249 --> 00:22:46,279
the New Zealand skeptics regardless ya d

496
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:48,259
and you can find out more information on

497
00:22:53,529 --> 00:22:51,710
our website at skeptics in Zed or we do

498
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:53,539
have a in New Zealand skeptics Facebook

499
00:22:58,269 --> 00:22:55,370
page if you want to check us out there I

500
00:23:00,580 --> 00:22:58,279
suggest people in New Zealand that's the

501
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:00,590
first thing you should do and again I'm

502
00:23:05,470 --> 00:23:03,529
very very jealous of all those people

503
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:05,480
lucky enough to get down to your

504
00:23:09,610 --> 00:23:07,850
conference in Christchurch well Craig

505
00:23:12,970 --> 00:23:09,620
all the best please keep us up to date

506
00:23:15,749 --> 00:23:12,980
if there's any more activity or news

507
00:23:18,610 --> 00:23:15,759
coming out of that story but for now

508
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:18,620
Craig here in beautiful Auckland thank

509
00:23:22,610 --> 00:23:31,590
[Music]

510
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:34,720
i'm mick west in my podcast tells from

511
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:35,810
the rabbit-hole I've extended

512
00:23:39,670 --> 00:23:37,250
conversations with people who've been

513
00:23:41,230 --> 00:23:39,680
involved in conspiracy culture I do this

514
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:41,240
for a couple of reasons firstly because

515
00:23:44,260 --> 00:23:42,650
it's really interesting these people

516
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:44,270
have great stories about how they fell

517
00:23:47,650 --> 00:23:45,890
down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole

518
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:47,660
while they did down there and what it

519
00:23:50,740 --> 00:23:49,370
was that helped them out sometimes I

520
00:23:51,970 --> 00:23:50,750
also talked to people who investigate

521
00:23:53,530 --> 00:23:51,980
conspiracy theories and they have

522
00:23:55,870 --> 00:23:53,540
equally fascinating stories from the

523
00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:55,880
other side secondly I want to understand

524
00:23:58,510 --> 00:23:57,110
how best to prevent the spread of

525
00:24:00,580 --> 00:23:58,520
conspiracy there is a misinformation

526
00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:00,590
which is an increasing problem in a time

527
00:24:04,510 --> 00:24:03,110
when alternative media is exploding the

528
00:24:06,970 --> 00:24:04,520
best way to do this is to communicate

529
00:24:09,070 --> 00:24:06,980
effectively with the people involved and

530
00:24:12,190 --> 00:24:09,080
the best way to do that with a nice long

531
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:12,200
chat check it out tales from the rabbit

532
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:15,250
hole TFG RH com

533
00:24:43,570 --> 00:24:33,639
it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi

534
00:24:45,029 --> 00:24:43,580
Robertson hello everyone hi Lee

535
00:24:48,460 --> 00:24:45,039
Robertson from the Northern Rivers

536
00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:48,470
vaccination supporters here this week

537
00:24:55,509 --> 00:24:51,590
the healthcare Complaints Commission the

538
00:24:57,879 --> 00:24:55,519
H Triple C in Australia published its

539
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:57,889
statement of decision in the case of a

540
00:25:04,509 --> 00:25:01,279
mrs. Barbara O'Neill who they

541
00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:04,519
investigated and subsequently determined

542
00:25:10,989 --> 00:25:06,950
to be a risk to the health or safety of

543
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:10,999
members of the public Barbara O'Neil

544
00:25:15,399 --> 00:25:13,970
describes herself as and the following

545
00:25:19,109 --> 00:25:15,409
is directly from the H Triple C

546
00:25:22,029 --> 00:25:19,119
statement quote an author educator

547
00:25:25,330 --> 00:25:22,039
qualified naturopath and nutritionist

548
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:25,340
and an international speaker on natural

549
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:29,600
self healing end quote mrs. O'Neill is

550
00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:32,570
married to Michael O'Neill together

551
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:34,609
running the Misty Mountains health

552
00:25:40,090 --> 00:25:38,090
retreat Michael O'Neill is a former

553
00:25:43,169 --> 00:25:40,100
candidate for Australia's political

554
00:25:46,690 --> 00:25:43,179
party the involuntary medication

555
00:25:49,509 --> 00:25:46,700
objectives party which largely focuses

556
00:25:50,820 --> 00:25:49,519
on anti vaccination and anti fluoride

557
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:50,830
platforms

558
00:25:56,399 --> 00:25:53,690
when complaints about Barbara O'Neill

559
00:25:58,930 --> 00:25:56,409
first reached at the H Triple C an

560
00:26:01,450 --> 00:25:58,940
interim prohibition order was put in

561
00:26:05,229 --> 00:26:01,460
place on her whilst investigations and

562
00:26:09,070 --> 00:26:05,239
rights of reply were put into motion in

563
00:26:12,759 --> 00:26:09,080
July this year Michael O'Neill put up a

564
00:26:17,049 --> 00:26:12,769
rather cranky short video which is still

565
00:26:19,509 --> 00:26:17,059
on his Facebook page my observation was

566
00:26:21,849 --> 00:26:19,519
that the hearing was weighted towards

567
00:26:25,060 --> 00:26:21,859
the trivial it was completely

568
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,070
speculative as there was not one example

569
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:27,679
not one example of any evidence of any

570
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,330
harm

571
00:26:33,930 --> 00:26:30,880
any person from treatments or advice

572
00:26:36,660 --> 00:26:33,940
that it actually these advice of holes

573
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:36,670
memories on the ABC morning radio two

574
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,490
days ago it was reported that eleven

575
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:41,200
million Australians are now suffering

576
00:26:46,530 --> 00:26:43,510
from chronic diseases such as cancer

577
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:46,540
diabetes etc which is nearly half of all

578
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:48,610
strain this amounts to a national crisis

579
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:50,650
yet the health authorities have decided

580
00:26:55,620 --> 00:26:54,010
that it is worthy to pursue a little 66

581
00:26:57,810 --> 00:26:55,630
year old lady that has given her life to

582
00:27:01,500 --> 00:26:57,820
instructing people on a healthier

583
00:27:05,060 --> 00:27:01,510
happier and disease-free existence and

584
00:27:09,690 --> 00:27:05,070
the video goes on for another minute but

585
00:27:12,270 --> 00:27:09,700
you get the picture so what are Barbara

586
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:12,280
O'Neal's actual qualifications

587
00:27:18,060 --> 00:27:15,130
well the H Triple C looked closely at

588
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:18,070
this question after all this is a

589
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:20,650
determining factor in how valid the

590
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:22,450
information is that she has been

591
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:24,490
disseminating over the years via her

592
00:27:31,490 --> 00:27:27,850
seminars retreats which cost thousands

593
00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:31,500
of dollars and multiple YouTube videos

594
00:27:37,650 --> 00:27:34,750
from the H Triple C investigations

595
00:27:42,990 --> 00:27:37,660
report starting at Part three point four

596
00:27:45,180 --> 00:27:43,000
quote education in her resume mrs.

597
00:27:47,610 --> 00:27:45,190
O'Neal states that she was a psychiatric

598
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:47,620
nurse at the North Ryde psychiatric

599
00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:52,570
hospital between 1974 and 1976 at the

600
00:27:57,690 --> 00:27:55,480
interview mrs. O'Neal confirmed that she

601
00:28:00,030 --> 00:27:57,700
was a trainee nurse during this period

602
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:00,040
and did not set her final exams at the

603
00:28:04,530 --> 00:28:02,410
end of the three years to obtain a badge

604
00:28:07,230 --> 00:28:04,540
of registration by state registering

605
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:07,240
authorities mrs. O'Neal did not return

606
00:28:13,350 --> 00:28:11,440
to nursing at any stage after 1976 the

607
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:13,360
next qualification listed in mrs.

608
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:15,730
O'Neil's resume is a diploma in

609
00:28:22,020 --> 00:28:18,250
naturopathy obtained from the Tom

610
00:28:25,290 --> 00:28:22,030
Sounion Institute Australia in 1990 at

611
00:28:28,890 --> 00:28:25,300
the interview mrs. O'Neal clarified that

612
00:28:31,650 --> 00:28:28,900
the Tom Sounion Institute was run by mr.

613
00:28:34,050 --> 00:28:31,660
Fred steed at coffs harbor who is no

614
00:28:36,810 --> 00:28:34,060
longer alive and therefore the Institute

615
00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:36,820
is not operating in Coffs Harbour any

616
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:40,150
more mrs. O'Neal explained that she did

617
00:28:43,980 --> 00:28:41,530
not undertake

618
00:28:46,050 --> 00:28:43,990
coursework and the diploma had been

619
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:46,060
awarded to her under the grandfather

620
00:28:52,140 --> 00:28:49,090
clause because of her work helping young

621
00:28:53,940 --> 00:28:52,150
mothers in the region internet searches

622
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:53,950
by the commission have not found any

623
00:28:58,470 --> 00:28:55,840
information about the Institute

624
00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:58,480
however searches have confirmed that mr.

625
00:29:07,380 --> 00:29:00,640
Fred stead was a herbalist in Coffs

626
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:07,390
Harbour who died in 2007 and it goes on

627
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:10,570
the last qualification in mrs. O'Neil's

628
00:29:17,130 --> 00:29:13,840
resume is a diploma in nutrition and

629
00:29:21,390 --> 00:29:17,140
dietetics from the International

630
00:29:25,980 --> 00:29:21,400
Christian and natural therapist Inc or I

631
00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:25,990
can't ink at the interview mrs. O'Neil

632
00:29:29,820 --> 00:29:27,910
confirmed this qualification took her

633
00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:29,830
three to four years to attain and

634
00:29:35,460 --> 00:29:32,230
involved a correspondence course and two

635
00:29:38,490 --> 00:29:35,470
weeks of face-to-face lecturing every

636
00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:38,500
year mrs. O'Neil has provided the

637
00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:40,060
Commission with her certificate of

638
00:29:44,490 --> 00:29:42,820
diploma and miscellaneous coursework

639
00:29:47,610 --> 00:29:44,500
material in relation to this

640
00:29:50,390 --> 00:29:47,620
qualification according to mrs. O'Neil

641
00:29:54,140 --> 00:29:50,400
I can't Inc was a recognised training

642
00:29:57,420 --> 00:29:54,150
organization however it quote shut down

643
00:29:59,730 --> 00:29:57,430
approximately three years ago mrs.

644
00:30:03,360 --> 00:29:59,740
O'Neil claims her qualification was at

645
00:30:04,860 --> 00:30:03,370
quote Bachelor of Science level internet

646
00:30:06,690 --> 00:30:04,870
searches by the Commission have not

647
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:06,700
found any information about the

648
00:30:14,540 --> 00:30:09,310
organization apart from an old Facebook

649
00:30:17,610 --> 00:30:14,550
page which contains no details and quote

650
00:30:21,150 --> 00:30:17,620
ok so now that we have established the

651
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:21,160
qualifications of mrs. O'Neil I'll read

652
00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:23,290
out the Australian skeptics summation of

653
00:30:31,770 --> 00:30:26,860
the age to posses decision put out by

654
00:30:35,180 --> 00:30:31,780
Tim Mendham on the 2nd of October 2019

655
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:35,190
and Easterners may recognize the

656
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:39,600
complainants names mentioned quote

657
00:30:46,220 --> 00:30:43,330
naturopath O'Neill banned for life by

658
00:30:48,570 --> 00:30:46,230
Tim Mendham the New South Wales

659
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:48,580
healthcare Complaints Commission has

660
00:30:54,790 --> 00:30:51,730
given a lifespan - naturopath Barbra

661
00:30:57,730 --> 00:30:54,800
O'Neill the order permanently

662
00:31:00,280 --> 00:30:57,740
Hibbert's o'neill from quote providing

663
00:31:03,610 --> 00:31:00,290
any health service whether on a paid or

664
00:31:06,940 --> 00:31:03,620
voluntary basis to any person end quote

665
00:31:09,670 --> 00:31:06,950
the term health service includes health

666
00:31:11,650 --> 00:31:09,680
education services which were a feature

667
00:31:13,810 --> 00:31:11,660
of the northern New South Wales misty

668
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:13,820
mountain health retreat founded by

669
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:18,610
O'Neal and her husband Michael in 2001

670
00:31:24,010 --> 00:31:21,170
breaking the terms of the prohibition

671
00:31:27,310 --> 00:31:24,020
order could incur a six-month prison

672
00:31:30,220 --> 00:31:27,320
sentence a statement of decision issued

673
00:31:33,370 --> 00:31:30,230
on September the 24th but only published

674
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:33,380
today says that quote the New South

675
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:35,330
Wales healthcare Complaints Commission

676
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:38,000
conducted an investigation into the

677
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:40,640
professional conduct of mrs. Barbara

678
00:31:46,170 --> 00:31:43,850
O'Neal an unregistered practitioner who

679
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:46,180
provides services as a naturopath

680
00:31:51,940 --> 00:31:49,760
nutritionists and health educator the

681
00:31:54,610 --> 00:31:51,950
complaints under investigation alleged

682
00:31:57,940 --> 00:31:54,620
that mrs. O'Neill makes dubious and

683
00:32:01,530 --> 00:31:57,950
dangerous health claims regarding infant

684
00:32:04,780 --> 00:32:01,540
nutrition causes and treatment of cancer

685
00:32:07,390 --> 00:32:04,790
antibiotics and vaccinations that are

686
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:07,400
not evidence-based or supported by

687
00:32:12,850 --> 00:32:10,970
mainstream medicine the prohibition

688
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:12,860
order follows several complaints made

689
00:32:19,470 --> 00:32:15,770
last year which led the H Triple C to

690
00:32:22,450 --> 00:32:19,480
impose an interim ban in December 2018

691
00:32:25,390 --> 00:32:22,460
the complaints covered various aspects

692
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:25,400
of O'Neill's operations and claims with

693
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,010
the complainants including accredited

694
00:32:33,790 --> 00:32:31,120
practicing dietitian Mandee Lee noble

695
00:32:37,050 --> 00:32:33,800
the Northern Rivers vaccination

696
00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:37,060
supporters group and stop the AVN

697
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:41,150
co-founder Ken MacLeod of particular

698
00:32:46,810 --> 00:32:43,760
concern to the Commission was that quote

699
00:32:49,030 --> 00:32:46,820
mrs. O'Neal cannot recognize and provide

700
00:32:51,820 --> 00:32:49,040
health advice within the limits of her

701
00:32:53,980 --> 00:32:51,830
training and experience mrs. O'Neal

702
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:53,990
considers herself qualified to provide

703
00:32:59,140 --> 00:32:56,650
health advice in highly complex and

704
00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:59,150
specialized areas such as cancer

705
00:33:05,740 --> 00:33:02,240
treatment use of antibiotics for strep B

706
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:05,750
and immunization in circumstances where

707
00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:07,760
it is clear her knowledge is

708
00:33:12,610 --> 00:33:09,950
limited the Commission's investigation

709
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:12,620
found that mrs. O'Neal does not

710
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:14,240
recognize that she is misleading

711
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:16,730
vulnerable people including mothers and

712
00:33:23,260 --> 00:33:19,970
cancer sufferers by providing very

713
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:23,270
selective information the misinformation

714
00:33:28,390 --> 00:33:26,000
has huge potential to have a detrimental

715
00:33:31,270 --> 00:33:28,400
effect on the health of individuals as

716
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:31,280
mrs. O'Neal discourages mainstream

717
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:34,510
treatment for cancer antibiotics and

718
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:39,410
vaccinations and quote while O'Neal says

719
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:41,330
she is a retired naturopath and

720
00:33:46,930 --> 00:33:44,240
nutritionist her website indicates she

721
00:33:49,330 --> 00:33:46,940
works at the retreat and will help to

722
00:33:53,260 --> 00:33:49,340
guide clients through detox programs

723
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:53,270
designed to quote help you recover from

724
00:34:01,900 --> 00:33:56,330
heart disease chronic fatigue hormonal

725
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:01,910
imbalance diabetes candida / fungus drug

726
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:04,850
addictions cancer treatments heartburn

727
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:09,530
and obesity / weight loss she is an

728
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:12,110
active anti vaccination campaigner and

729
00:34:18,490 --> 00:34:15,230
speaker and has recommended a range of

730
00:34:20,860 --> 00:34:18,500
alternative treatments and advice these

731
00:34:23,919 --> 00:34:20,870
include telling pregnant mothers to

732
00:34:28,090 --> 00:34:23,929
refuse antibiotic treatment for strep B

733
00:34:30,909 --> 00:34:28,100
infection and using raw goat's milk for

734
00:34:33,879 --> 00:34:30,919
infants as a substitute for breast milk

735
00:34:37,540 --> 00:34:33,889
this latter treatment was singled out in

736
00:34:40,330 --> 00:34:37,550
the interim prohibition order the

737
00:34:43,180 --> 00:34:40,340
initial order elicited a campaign by

738
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:43,190
O'Neal and her supporters including a

739
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:46,480
GoFundMe crowdfunding appeal to raise

740
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:50,090
$20,000 for legal defense from its

741
00:34:55,780 --> 00:34:52,850
launch in January that campaign has

742
00:34:58,930 --> 00:34:55,790
fallen short of the anticipated amount

743
00:35:01,630 --> 00:34:58,940
having raised twelve thousand two

744
00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:01,640
hundred and five dollars as of October

745
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:04,390
the 1st 2019

746
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:08,210
Mandy lee Noble said that quote the H

747
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:10,610
Triple C outcome is great and I thank

748
00:35:15,100 --> 00:35:13,910
everyone involved but prohibition orders

749
00:35:18,010 --> 00:35:15,110
are not much help

750
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:18,020
once the harm is done the message I

751
00:35:21,609 --> 00:35:20,450
would like to give health consumers is

752
00:35:24,180 --> 00:35:21,619
that natural

753
00:35:28,029 --> 00:35:24,190
is not based in science or medicine and

754
00:35:31,779 --> 00:35:28,039
naturopaths are not regulated so you

755
00:35:34,839 --> 00:35:31,789
take all the risk and quote ken MacLeod

756
00:35:36,940 --> 00:35:34,849
added that quote it is reassuring that

757
00:35:39,849 --> 00:35:36,950
the H Triple C relied on the science and

758
00:35:43,710 --> 00:35:39,859
were not dissuaded by petitions from

759
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:43,720
O'Neal's misguided acolytes and quote

760
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:46,490
misty mountains is claimed to be run as

761
00:35:53,049 --> 00:35:49,490
a not-for-profit and is registered as a

762
00:35:54,999 --> 00:35:53,059
health promotion charity with deductible

763
00:35:57,999 --> 00:35:55,009
gift recipient status from the

764
00:35:59,859 --> 00:35:58,009
Australian Taxation Office a complaint

765
00:36:01,989 --> 00:35:59,869
was also made to the Australian

766
00:36:04,809 --> 00:36:01,999
charities and nonprofits Commission

767
00:36:07,420 --> 00:36:04,819
which regulates charities to date

768
00:36:12,819 --> 00:36:07,430
however there has been no response from

769
00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:12,829
the ACNC Ken McLeod says he wonders what

770
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:16,670
the ACNC s response will now be in light

771
00:36:23,549 --> 00:36:20,720
of O'Neill's permanent prohibition order

772
00:36:27,339 --> 00:36:23,559
end quote

773
00:36:30,519 --> 00:36:27,349
this is a great outcome for the public

774
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:30,529
it goes to show that sometimes the

775
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:33,170
acronyms like the H Triple C will act

776
00:36:38,049 --> 00:36:35,930
and we should all be putting in

777
00:36:42,910 --> 00:36:38,059
complaints about shonky health care

778
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:42,920
practitioners giving bad advice Richard

779
00:36:49,089 --> 00:36:45,890
will link in the show notes this week to

780
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:49,099
the H triple C's full statement of

781
00:36:54,609 --> 00:36:51,170
decision which is well worth the read

782
00:36:58,420 --> 00:36:54,619
it's simultaneously very interesting and

783
00:37:01,299 --> 00:36:58,430
horrifying but well worth a read but

784
00:37:03,989 --> 00:37:01,309
until next time this has been Heidi

785
00:37:07,250 --> 00:37:03,999
Robertson from the Northern Rivers

786
00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:07,260
vaccination supporters bye for now

787
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:14,520
[Music]

788
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:16,810
are you looking for a science-based

789
00:37:21,330 --> 00:37:18,970
medical podcast to answer all your

790
00:37:23,790 --> 00:37:21,340
questions about health check out the

791
00:37:25,859 --> 00:37:23,800
body of evidence whether you're curious

792
00:37:29,490 --> 00:37:25,869
about the potential benefits of omega-3s

793
00:37:31,140 --> 00:37:29,500
or the potential risks of vaping we take

794
00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:31,150
a look at the body of evidence to

795
00:37:36,930 --> 00:37:33,340
separate the noise the hype the lies

796
00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:36,940
from actual scientific rigor we do it

797
00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:38,950
with comedy skits the only logical thing

798
00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:40,000
to do is for me to take off all my

799
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:42,430
clothes and run into the street no

800
00:37:48,070 --> 00:37:44,290
remember the first rule of podcasting

801
00:37:50,510 --> 00:37:48,080
always keep your pants on with jingles

802
00:37:54,060 --> 00:37:50,520
[Music]

803
00:37:55,740 --> 00:37:54,070
and by you know discussing what the

804
00:37:58,859 --> 00:37:55,750
evidence has to say on the topic at hand

805
00:38:00,750 --> 00:37:58,869
or unless that is a pill but yeah it has

806
00:38:02,190 --> 00:38:00,760
it has the side effects of bloating gas

807
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:02,200
and greasy stool which makes it very

808
00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:04,810
unpleasant the body of evidence find it

809
00:38:09,690 --> 00:38:07,270
a body of evidence dossier or on your

810
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:09,700
favorite podcast app the body of

811
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:12,730
evidence medicine that tastes funny and

812
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:22,630
[Music]

813
00:38:30,910 --> 00:38:27,650
years may not spooky action at a

814
00:38:35,060 --> 00:38:33,200
well it's skeptics in the pub the

815
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:35,070
Occidental hotel mein RT up the back in

816
00:38:38,780 --> 00:38:36,720
the Nordic corner rather people who try

817
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:38,790
and hide away from all the hustle and

818
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:40,530
bustle of Sydney skeptics in the pub

819
00:38:44,270 --> 00:38:42,930
today we've got a big one Tricia's on

820
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:44,280
stage telling us about some

821
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:47,130
revolutionary some revolutionary

822
00:38:51,859 --> 00:38:51,090
advances in stroke maintenance care and

823
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:51,869
all that kind of thing

824
00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:54,090
I'd I'll be asking you about stroke mate

825
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:55,710
they'll not make look look she's

826
00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:57,210
something things are getting better for

827
00:39:00,740 --> 00:38:58,890
people who might have a stroke that's

828
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:00,750
what it's all about tonight

829
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:03,210
look Richard's not here he's um look

830
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:05,610
you've seen that show Deep Space nine

831
00:39:10,130 --> 00:39:08,640
there was a disease called the phage in

832
00:39:12,140 --> 00:39:10,140
that yeah he's he's suffering in the

833
00:39:14,780 --> 00:39:12,150
phage not to be confused with the fridge

834
00:39:16,370 --> 00:39:14,790
that was a fragile friendly free there

835
00:39:18,770 --> 00:39:16,380
was a drag performer from dullard sure

836
00:39:20,570 --> 00:39:18,780
great great show but now richard has the

837
00:39:25,420 --> 00:39:20,580
phage so he won't be here tonight I

838
00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:25,430
myself I'm suffering from severe low SES

839
00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:28,380
social economic status so I'll be under

840
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:31,070
an injury cloud and a financial cloud

841
00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:34,770
and just a cloud generally um as we

842
00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:36,150
talked to Trish and other people and

843
00:39:39,380 --> 00:39:37,950
will be asking should skip least get

844
00:39:40,849 --> 00:39:39,390
involved in this whole sort of thing the

845
00:39:42,830 --> 00:39:40,859
New Zealand skeptics have got involved

846
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:42,840
with us New Zealand skeptics are trying

847
00:39:48,050 --> 00:39:45,570
to stop venues hosting someone who's

848
00:39:49,550 --> 00:39:48,060
claiming to be a psychic healer in fact

849
00:39:51,710 --> 00:39:49,560
she doesn't actually claim she's a

850
00:39:54,170 --> 00:39:51,720
psychic healer from what I gather she

851
00:39:58,099 --> 00:39:54,180
speaks to psychic surgeons on the other

852
00:39:59,660 --> 00:39:58,109
side of the cardboard I don't know on

853
00:40:01,280 --> 00:39:59,670
the other side and they do the healing

854
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:01,290
for us so it's not her that's actually

855
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:02,970
doing the healing so I'll be asking

856
00:40:07,790 --> 00:40:05,310
those questions and seeing how we go

857
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:07,800
here on a night where everybody is very

858
00:40:13,370 --> 00:40:09,690
much under the weather at skeptics in

859
00:40:15,890 --> 00:40:13,380
the pub so where do you sit on this

860
00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:15,900
psychic healer issue should the skeptics

861
00:40:20,359 --> 00:40:17,310
get in there and say something or should

862
00:40:22,340 --> 00:40:20,369
they mind their own beeswax I reckon I

863
00:40:23,690 --> 00:40:22,350
reckon it's kind of the right thing to

864
00:40:26,930 --> 00:40:23,700
do I think definitely go in and say

865
00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:26,940
something I don't know I mean if that's

866
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:28,710
not what skeptics do well then what do

867
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:31,200
we do really so is it just a thing where

868
00:40:34,099 --> 00:40:32,730
you give the venue ring or send them a

869
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:34,109
letter and alerting them to what the

870
00:40:36,859 --> 00:40:35,490
person might be about or you think it's

871
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:36,869
actually doing the kind of thing Trish

872
00:40:41,150 --> 00:40:38,010
does where you stand at the front with

873
00:40:45,260 --> 00:40:41,160
the sign going if you look I do love

874
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:45,270
pressure signs you can clearly read the

875
00:40:50,180 --> 00:40:48,510
letters I think it's kind it's probably

876
00:40:52,250 --> 00:40:50,190
situated a bit situational depends on

877
00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:52,260
the person depends on the venue some

878
00:40:57,290 --> 00:40:55,310
some venues I would be particularly

879
00:41:00,140 --> 00:40:57,300
vociferous in my complaints like I think

880
00:41:01,910 --> 00:41:00,150
if the University was hosting a psychic

881
00:41:04,490 --> 00:41:01,920
night then that would be worth a lot of

882
00:41:05,780 --> 00:41:04,500
complaining if it's a small pub where

883
00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:05,790
ten people are going to turn up then you

884
00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:07,500
might do more harm than good by calling

885
00:41:11,780 --> 00:41:10,140
attention to the event how do you guys

886
00:41:13,730 --> 00:41:11,790
feel about this psychic healer coming to

887
00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:13,740
Australia and should you know make a

888
00:41:19,609 --> 00:41:17,640
fuss like they're in New Zealand I think

889
00:41:25,010 --> 00:41:19,619
we should definitely as skeptics do

890
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:25,020
something depends on the particular goal

891
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:27,570
that you're after yes so would it be

892
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:29,850
like should be just persuading the venue

893
00:41:32,750 --> 00:41:31,410
from having her there or trying to stop

894
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:32,760
people from going there what do you

895
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:34,560
think we the best idea I think probably

896
00:41:40,099 --> 00:41:36,510
all of the above and there might be

897
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:40,109
different actions to achieve each when

898
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:43,200
you're talking to people who are not

899
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:44,400
directly involved probably should be

900
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:47,520
focusing on informing people well we

901
00:41:51,740 --> 00:41:49,290
heard skeptics in the pub with the newly

902
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:51,750
anointed down a president this trance

903
00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:53,490
kept exactly your title your highness

904
00:41:59,480 --> 00:41:56,880
yes indeed yes your Highnesses is some

905
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:59,490
quite acceptable mmm look Alethea used

906
00:42:02,450 --> 00:42:00,720
to get carried round on a sedan chair

907
00:42:05,090 --> 00:42:02,460
with a couple of shirtless cars are you

908
00:42:07,340 --> 00:42:05,100
going to be doing that as well oh I'll

909
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:07,350
think about it I think I have to go one

910
00:42:12,620 --> 00:42:09,770
better than ilithyia though I think well

911
00:42:13,730 --> 00:42:12,630
for shirtless guys instead of just two I

912
00:42:16,130 --> 00:42:13,740
think that's a good idea

913
00:42:17,420 --> 00:42:16,140
and how do you feel about well the

914
00:42:18,849 --> 00:42:17,430
question of today which is the New

915
00:42:21,050 --> 00:42:18,859
Zealand skeptics are getting a bit

916
00:42:22,490 --> 00:42:21,060
uppity and in-your-face about the

917
00:42:24,380 --> 00:42:22,500
psychic healer that's visiting that

918
00:42:26,030 --> 00:42:24,390
country and that person may be visiting

919
00:42:28,910 --> 00:42:26,040
here - do you think skeptics have a role

920
00:42:31,730 --> 00:42:28,920
to inform venues that there may be some

921
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:31,740
bit of possible fraud going on or in

922
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:33,510
fact that you know the person's getting

923
00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:35,700
sold a bill of sale for something

924
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:39,470
doesn't exist definitely definitely and

925
00:42:45,590 --> 00:42:42,570
that when you think about it it's it's

926
00:42:46,190 --> 00:42:45,600
some there are quite a few levels to

927
00:42:48,829 --> 00:42:46,200
that

928
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:48,839
I definitely think skeptics have a role

929
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:53,570
in alerting venues and even perhaps

930
00:43:01,180 --> 00:42:57,530
pressuring venues and also maybe doing

931
00:43:04,130 --> 00:43:01,190
some activism outside venues with

932
00:43:06,589 --> 00:43:04,140
leaflets for the potential attendees

933
00:43:09,290 --> 00:43:06,599
which we've done in the past with some

934
00:43:12,020 --> 00:43:09,300
the psychic Sally morgue and we stood

935
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:12,030
outside the State Theater very low-key

936
00:43:15,950 --> 00:43:14,609
and you know not in-your-face at all but

937
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:15,960
we had some leaflets that we were

938
00:43:19,220 --> 00:43:17,520
handing out to the the people who are

939
00:43:22,460 --> 00:43:19,230
going to see the psychic Sally Morgan

940
00:43:24,829 --> 00:43:22,470
and that the message of our handouts was

941
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:24,839
you look after yourself if you're going

942
00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:28,050
there for a night's entertainment well

943
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:29,700
and good enjoy the show

944
00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:31,890
but if you're going there because you've

945
00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:35,220
lost someone do be aware of the

946
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:38,880
techniques that the psychics use with

947
00:43:43,089 --> 00:43:41,130
regard to cold reading and if you really

948
00:43:45,650 --> 00:43:43,099
have lost someone and you need some help

949
00:43:49,099 --> 00:43:45,660
look after yourself this this might not

950
00:43:51,230 --> 00:43:49,109
be the place for you so if it can be

951
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:51,240
done quite gently and quite sensitively

952
00:44:00,020 --> 00:43:57,599
in in terms of informing venues venues

953
00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:00,030
or businesses they need to make money so

954
00:44:05,540 --> 00:44:02,670
I don't know that skeptics would have a

955
00:44:07,970 --> 00:44:05,550
lot of traction there but you know we

956
00:44:09,380 --> 00:44:07,980
can try we can try well it would be

957
00:44:10,970 --> 00:44:09,390
interesting intervening with people

958
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:10,980
going into a psychic healer because

959
00:44:14,690 --> 00:44:12,690
you'd have people that would be maybe

960
00:44:16,310 --> 00:44:14,700
obviously physically ill going in and

961
00:44:18,050 --> 00:44:16,320
that that would be a difficult one

962
00:44:20,510 --> 00:44:18,060
sometimes oh that would be really

963
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:20,520
difficult and III think our message

964
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:22,290
would be the same as people going in to

965
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:24,720
see a psychic look after yourself

966
00:44:31,070 --> 00:44:27,570
are you sure that this is the right

967
00:44:34,310 --> 00:44:31,080
place to be for you and again I have

968
00:44:36,170 --> 00:44:34,320
mentioned her her style where she speaks

969
00:44:38,030 --> 00:44:36,180
to psychic surgeons on the other side

970
00:44:39,530 --> 00:44:38,040
who do the healing so she's not doing

971
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:39,540
the healing which I think it's an

972
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,800
interesting one because it also brings

973
00:44:45,260 --> 00:44:43,200
in the matter of people who may be of a

974
00:44:48,890 --> 00:44:45,270
religious persuasion where's God in this

975
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:48,900
equation well exactly and I the whole

976
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:50,910
thing to me is so hilarious and so

977
00:44:55,730 --> 00:44:52,770
ludicrous I can't imagine how anybody

978
00:44:57,500 --> 00:44:55,740
would take it seriously but

979
00:45:00,830 --> 00:44:57,510
you know maybe there are people who to

980
00:45:03,260 --> 00:45:00,840
take it seriously and and you know well

981
00:45:04,670 --> 00:45:03,270
they would also possibly be very

982
00:45:06,290 --> 00:45:04,680
vulnerable to because they could have

983
00:45:08,570 --> 00:45:06,300
exhausted many of the standard medical

984
00:45:11,330 --> 00:45:08,580
ways to make themselves better

985
00:45:15,650 --> 00:45:11,340
yes and if they then abandon those ways

986
00:45:19,730 --> 00:45:15,660
to go to somebody like this healer who

987
00:45:22,070 --> 00:45:19,740
talks to people on the other side for

988
00:45:23,630 --> 00:45:22,080
healing and and do we know whether she

989
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:23,640
talks to people who are actually

990
00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:26,730
medically qualified I've only going on

991
00:45:31,010 --> 00:45:28,310
the description that the New Zealand

992
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:31,020
skeptics mentioned and they said psychic

993
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,090
healers on the other side so I don't

994
00:45:36,740 --> 00:45:35,280
know if these are actual ex doctors

995
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:36,750
Turin top I don't know

996
00:45:43,220 --> 00:45:40,290
yes vague isn't it it is very vague it's

997
00:45:45,290 --> 00:45:43,230
frightening lis vague it's it's actually

998
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:45,300
a really really scary thing particularly

999
00:45:51,890 --> 00:45:48,330
if people again abandon recommended

1000
00:46:00,440 --> 00:45:51,900
treatment or you know evidence-based

1001
00:46:01,849 --> 00:46:00,450
treatment for this alternative we have

1002
00:46:03,650 --> 00:46:01,859
been asking we have been asking about

1003
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:03,660
the question it would say what would you

1004
00:46:08,740 --> 00:46:05,010
be saying to the psychic healer that's

1005
00:46:11,740 --> 00:46:08,750
coming out can you state any particular

1006
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:11,750
success that you have had that is

1007
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:16,170
undeniably true you start with the tough

1008
00:46:21,590 --> 00:46:18,770
ones don't you of course

1009
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:21,600
it's meant to be that's a very

1010
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:23,040
succinctly good answer to the whole

1011
00:46:26,570 --> 00:46:24,480
thing how do you feel about their role

1012
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:26,580
the skeptics advance of the show well I

1013
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:28,410
think it's it's a really difficult thing

1014
00:46:34,849 --> 00:46:31,680
to say because that person has a right

1015
00:46:37,730 --> 00:46:34,859
to do what they do regardless of what we

1016
00:46:39,830 --> 00:46:37,740
you know the majority of people might

1017
00:46:42,260 --> 00:46:39,840
think about whether that's correct or

1018
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:42,270
not so then it becomes a business

1019
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:45,170
question whether form from the venue's

1020
00:46:49,609 --> 00:46:47,040
perspective whether they should have

1021
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:49,619
them or not personally I think that it's

1022
00:46:56,030 --> 00:46:52,410
you know the I'd be quite supportive of

1023
00:47:00,770 --> 00:46:56,040
the skeptics in suggesting that they

1024
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:00,780
maybe you should look twice before you

1025
00:47:06,980 --> 00:47:03,690
take any step towards listening to this

1026
00:47:08,570 --> 00:47:06,990
person but they've got just as much

1027
00:47:11,780 --> 00:47:08,580
right as anyone else to express their

1028
00:47:14,060 --> 00:47:11,790
opinion oh god I'm here with Tim Mendham

1029
00:47:15,170 --> 00:47:14,070
here man as we spoke to him last time

1030
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:15,180
you know he doesn't like the Human

1031
00:47:20,290 --> 00:47:17,370
League after that after their first

1032
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:20,300
album but how you feel that Duran Duran

1033
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:24,720
I liked it with the first album again

1034
00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:26,850
planet Earth after that forget it but

1035
00:47:30,260 --> 00:47:28,710
we're talking about psychic healers the

1036
00:47:31,340 --> 00:47:30,270
psychic eel that's currently are going

1037
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:31,350
to go through New Zealand the New

1038
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:33,450
Zealand skeptics are informing venues

1039
00:47:37,490 --> 00:47:35,490
and people about her psychic healing

1040
00:47:39,350 --> 00:47:37,500
powers or or maybe not having them and

1041
00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:39,360
do you think the Australian skeptics it

1042
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:40,500
should be something that we should get

1043
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:42,480
into warning people of possible fraud

1044
00:47:46,370 --> 00:47:44,400
and affect that what she's doing you

1045
00:47:47,870 --> 00:47:46,380
know we always have a psychic surgery

1046
00:47:49,250 --> 00:47:47,880
and that sort of stuff and psychic

1047
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:49,260
healing was about some of the first

1048
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:51,210
things we actually dealt with way back

1049
00:47:54,890 --> 00:47:53,010
when this is a new wrinkle on this you

1050
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:54,900
know how she does it she doesn't do the

1051
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:56,850
psychic healing herself she contacts

1052
00:48:00,890 --> 00:47:58,800
psychic surgeons on the other side who

1053
00:48:03,170 --> 00:48:00,900
do it so she's got what's the core

1054
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:03,180
pausable deniability yes why she had I

1055
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:05,760
speak to dead doctors yeah right who

1056
00:48:10,730 --> 00:48:08,490
could come in and do it for I know it's

1057
00:48:13,220 --> 00:48:10,740
it's a it's a novelty yeah there's a bit

1058
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:13,230
of a gimmick I think especially when

1059
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:16,050
people start anyone who does this in the

1060
00:48:20,270 --> 00:48:17,850
health area should be pulled up as much

1061
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:20,280
as possible and I don't believe that

1062
00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:22,890
yeah Audrey psychic everyday person who

1063
00:48:26,990 --> 00:48:25,110
reads the crystal ball enough in a gypsy

1064
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:27,000
outfit is by and large pretty harmless

1065
00:48:30,620 --> 00:48:28,800
but someone who's talking about health

1066
00:48:32,570 --> 00:48:30,630
and those sort of areas really affects

1067
00:48:34,580 --> 00:48:32,580
the way people live I think I think we

1068
00:48:36,530 --> 00:48:34,590
have a right to at least not necessarily

1069
00:48:38,300 --> 00:48:36,540
to go out there and throw stones or

1070
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:38,310
something like that but to certainly to

1071
00:48:43,220 --> 00:48:40,800
try and very actively point out that

1072
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:43,230
this is this is shonky because you have

1073
00:48:46,370 --> 00:48:44,400
you seen this in Australia before

1074
00:48:47,660 --> 00:48:46,380
because I mentioned people who are very

1075
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:47,670
sick would be turning up with these

1076
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:48,930
shows have you seen this sort of thing

1077
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:50,490
when it happens in Australia before I I

1078
00:48:55,790 --> 00:48:53,730
haven't seen that the psychic that the

1079
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:55,800
dead doctor he liked being certainly

1080
00:48:59,840 --> 00:48:58,290
seen some faith healing bazaars and that

1081
00:49:01,450 --> 00:48:59,850
that's very sad to say because that's

1082
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:01,460
people who are extremely vulnerable

1083
00:49:06,670 --> 00:49:04,160
and their religious belief and I've seen

1084
00:49:09,130 --> 00:49:06,680
them sort of who don't get healed and

1085
00:49:10,450 --> 00:49:09,140
the healer blames them they're not

1086
00:49:12,309 --> 00:49:10,460
getting healed get it you didn't have

1087
00:49:13,450 --> 00:49:12,319
enough faith in other words that's it

1088
00:49:15,730 --> 00:49:13,460
that's the thing I was wondering where

1089
00:49:17,380 --> 00:49:15,740
you've got these these psychic surgeons

1090
00:49:19,599 --> 00:49:17,390
on the other side I'm just wondering it

1091
00:49:22,030 --> 00:49:19,609
for anyone who is very much a Christian

1092
00:49:24,099 --> 00:49:22,040
or any religion that wonder whether role

1093
00:49:25,930 --> 00:49:24,109
of God is in this because surely God

1094
00:49:27,250 --> 00:49:25,940
could do these kind of things through

1095
00:49:29,020 --> 00:49:27,260
prayer that you should be able to get

1096
00:49:30,730 --> 00:49:29,030
through this psychic healer I don't

1097
00:49:34,059 --> 00:49:30,740
think it's a god God plays a very big

1098
00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:34,069
part in this I think it's as much the

1099
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:35,990
audience for those psychics and speaking

1100
00:49:39,609 --> 00:49:37,910
to the dead went to one the other day

1101
00:49:41,049 --> 00:49:39,619
actually and honestly of the audience

1102
00:49:44,589 --> 00:49:41,059
just left it up there's no questions

1103
00:49:46,809 --> 00:49:44,599
asked no it's critical thinking at all

1104
00:49:49,180 --> 00:49:46,819
that arises they'll just accept anything

1105
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:49,190
that happens with this they believe in

1106
00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:51,680
the imprimatur of the experts and the

1107
00:49:55,870 --> 00:49:54,710
experts happen to be dead big deal I'm

1108
00:49:59,799 --> 00:49:55,880
not quite sure I understand why do they

1109
00:50:01,359 --> 00:49:59,809
have to be dead when I think psychic

1110
00:50:02,859 --> 00:50:01,369
surgeons on the other side I was only

1111
00:50:05,349 --> 00:50:02,869
assuming the other side of the veil of

1112
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:05,359
life oh I'm sure they aren't contacting

1113
00:50:11,319 --> 00:50:09,890
any one of the Royal PRP had enough work

1114
00:50:13,210 --> 00:50:11,329
it is that a niche stuff when they're on

1115
00:50:14,620 --> 00:50:13,220
that and there's the poor doctor having

1116
00:50:16,660 --> 00:50:14,630
a meal at a restaurant then suddenly

1117
00:50:18,220 --> 00:50:16,670
hang on I've got this message I have to

1118
00:50:19,930 --> 00:50:18,230
cure someone's cancer yeah yeah

1119
00:50:21,549 --> 00:50:19,940
telepathically I know well they are

1120
00:50:24,010 --> 00:50:21,559
there they're sort of you know why if

1121
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:24,020
it's a novelty it's a gimme only it

1122
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:25,730
supposes clever is something different I

1123
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:27,770
mean ooh it's not like remember the dead

1124
00:50:30,700 --> 00:50:28,490
composers

1125
00:50:32,740 --> 00:50:30,710
some of us getting in touch with or what

1126
00:50:34,180 --> 00:50:32,750
we call the decomposing composers yeah

1127
00:50:35,980 --> 00:50:34,190
someone was getting in touch with people

1128
00:50:37,900 --> 00:50:35,990
like Beethoven I think that one writing

1129
00:50:40,359 --> 00:50:37,910
new bits of music as if it was

1130
00:50:41,799 --> 00:50:40,369
Beethoven's organ or whatever okay and

1131
00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:41,809
channeling them channeling them yeah you

1132
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:45,200
know Wagner definite people and creating

1133
00:50:48,130 --> 00:50:46,400
things so she's doing much the same

1134
00:50:49,660 --> 00:50:48,140
thing but in a health area Wow

1135
00:50:51,609 --> 00:50:49,670
okay that's part of that's pretty

1136
00:50:53,650 --> 00:50:51,619
interesting stuff you good okay you've

1137
00:50:53,859 --> 00:50:53,660
seen it all haven't you huh yeah thank

1138
00:50:58,260 --> 00:50:53,869
you

1139
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:00,490
well that's a wrap for skeptics in the

1140
00:51:03,790 --> 00:51:02,210
pub here it's been a big month here

1141
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:03,800
knocked over coming up in November we're

1142
00:51:07,930 --> 00:51:05,690
gonna be talking about forensic

1143
00:51:09,310 --> 00:51:07,940
psychology is gonna be on display and

1144
00:51:11,110 --> 00:51:09,320
gonna be the topic of the talk here at

1145
00:51:14,410 --> 00:51:11,120
skeptics in the pub that's the first

1146
00:51:16,540 --> 00:51:14,420
Thursday of next month and may not

1147
00:51:18,070 --> 00:51:16,550
signing off here and man what it's been

1148
00:51:19,210 --> 00:51:18,080
there's been some rock and some rolling

1149
00:51:21,790 --> 00:51:19,220
and there's been a lot of stroke and

1150
00:51:23,710 --> 00:51:21,800
going on here tonight I say what I don't

1151
00:51:37,390 --> 00:51:23,720
say what I don't smoke and I'm gonna

1152
00:51:42,020 --> 00:51:40,070
hi I'm Darrin McKee one of the hosts of

1153
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:42,030
the reality check each week my co-host

1154
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,770
and I explore a range of controversies

1155
00:51:46,849 --> 00:51:45,359
and curiosities using science and

1156
00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:46,859
critical thinking you can find us on

1157
00:51:50,330 --> 00:51:48,750
iTunes your favorite podcasting platform

1158
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:50,340
and on Facebook by searching for the

1159
00:51:54,410 --> 00:51:51,930
reality check or by following us on

1160
00:51:56,090 --> 00:51:54,420
Twitter at TRC underscore podcast until

1161
00:51:57,830 --> 00:51:56,100
then keep an open mind but not so open

1162
00:52:08,200 --> 00:51:57,840
your brain falls out

1163
00:52:12,279 --> 00:52:09,720
[Applause]

1164
00:52:15,519 --> 00:52:12,289
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1165
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:15,529
zone now this week or during the week

1166
00:52:23,769 --> 00:52:18,890
since the last episode I was struck down

1167
00:52:27,039 --> 00:52:23,779
by a very nasty throaty chesty head

1168
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:27,049
infection cold flu Black Death Plague

1169
00:52:32,140 --> 00:52:29,210
something or other it really knocked me

1170
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,150
around and it really annoyed me because

1171
00:52:37,630 --> 00:52:34,640
I wasn't well enough to attend skeptics

1172
00:52:39,220 --> 00:52:37,640
in the pub which was a pity but I did

1173
00:52:41,620 --> 00:52:39,230
try to put the time to some good use

1174
00:52:43,210 --> 00:52:41,630
while I couldn't really do much and I

1175
00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:43,220
ended up watching lots of tutorials

1176
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:47,510
online about my own well my own business

1177
00:52:53,470 --> 00:52:50,240
really in podcasting and video editing

1178
00:52:58,410 --> 00:52:53,480
and this that and the other and tips and

1179
00:53:00,970 --> 00:52:58,420
stuff and I came across a video tutorial

1180
00:53:03,370 --> 00:53:00,980
to do with something called noise

1181
00:53:05,769 --> 00:53:03,380
reduction and I found a little product

1182
00:53:07,420 --> 00:53:05,779
and I never really are very rarely

1183
00:53:10,569 --> 00:53:07,430
mentioned things on the skeptic zone and

1184
00:53:13,450 --> 00:53:10,579
this is no kickback I'm not getting paid

1185
00:53:14,859 --> 00:53:13,460
a cent for this but people out there

1186
00:53:16,690 --> 00:53:14,869
some people especially if you're an

1187
00:53:18,730 --> 00:53:16,700
audio production might like to know I

1188
00:53:25,450 --> 00:53:18,740
came across a wonderful little plugin

1189
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:25,460
for the ipad called brush fra b ru s fri

1190
00:53:32,769 --> 00:53:28,730
I think in Swedish it means noise free

1191
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:32,779
and it it's sensational I've used it on

1192
00:53:36,490 --> 00:53:34,400
this episode to cut down a lot of

1193
00:53:39,730 --> 00:53:36,500
background noise here and there anyway

1194
00:53:43,089 --> 00:53:39,740
if you're into audio work especially on

1195
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:43,099
the iPad iPhone I used the ferrite

1196
00:53:48,759 --> 00:53:45,890
program as well then I can recommend

1197
00:53:51,029 --> 00:53:48,769
brush fry I'll link to that in the show

1198
00:53:53,529 --> 00:53:51,039
notes you might want to check it out

1199
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:53,539
coming up on the skeptic zone I hope to

1200
00:53:57,490 --> 00:53:55,250
chat to more people involved with the

1201
00:54:00,460 --> 00:53:57,500
upcoming Australian skeptics convention

1202
00:54:01,990 --> 00:54:00,470
skeptic on in Melbourne our links in

1203
00:54:04,569 --> 00:54:02,000
this week's show notes of course that's

1204
00:54:07,450 --> 00:54:04,579
shaping up to be a great convention

1205
00:54:10,990 --> 00:54:07,460
indeed lots of international and local

1206
00:54:12,490 --> 00:54:11,000
guests all going well I'll be on the

1207
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:12,500
scene too to do interviews for the

1208
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:15,170
skeptic zone along with Maynard if your

1209
00:54:22,180 --> 00:54:19,490
dream is to be interviewed by Maynard

1210
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:22,190
if you come along to the skeptic on in

1211
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:24,410
Melbourne there's a good chance your

1212
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:26,810
dreams will come true oh and speaking of

1213
00:54:33,100 --> 00:54:28,570
Mina don't forget to check out his

1214
00:54:36,550 --> 00:54:33,110
adventures and events at Maynard not

1215
00:54:39,790 --> 00:54:36,560
calm a you and in fact on Saturday the

1216
00:54:42,550 --> 00:54:39,800
26th of October in glebe the red bar in

1217
00:54:45,460 --> 00:54:42,560
glebe we have mainers Love Shack dance

1218
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:45,470
night and those love shacks are really

1219
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:47,330
golf they're great fun if you want to go

1220
00:54:52,780 --> 00:54:50,090
along to Mina's Love Shack on the 26th

1221
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:52,790
of October head to Mina dot-com day you

1222
00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:54,890
for more information thank you again to

1223
00:55:01,030 --> 00:54:57,920
you people and you know who you are who

1224
00:55:04,570 --> 00:55:01,040
helped the skeptic zone in a very real

1225
00:55:07,090 --> 00:55:04,580
sense financially by chipping in with

1226
00:55:08,410 --> 00:55:07,100
patreon and some people use PayPal still

1227
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:08,420
that's great

1228
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:11,090
you can do that at skeptic zone TV and

1229
00:55:15,850 --> 00:55:13,040
it means the show keeps going it means I

1230
00:55:18,130 --> 00:55:15,860
can buy equipment and little bits and

1231
00:55:20,980 --> 00:55:18,140
pieces like the the noise reduction

1232
00:55:23,020 --> 00:55:20,990
plug-in I bought this week it means I

1233
00:55:25,870 --> 00:55:23,030
can get people to conventions like me

1234
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:25,880
not for example and I guess you could

1235
00:55:31,470 --> 00:55:28,880
say the skeptics own sort of can you say

1236
00:55:33,970 --> 00:55:31,480
this flies by the skin of its teeth

1237
00:55:35,530 --> 00:55:33,980
something like that so your

1238
00:55:38,349 --> 00:55:35,540
contributions your generous

1239
00:55:42,190 --> 00:55:38,359
contributions are actually vital vital

1240
00:55:45,609 --> 00:55:42,200
meaning without them no show so you

1241
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:45,619
people who do chip in I thank you very

1242
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:46,490
much indeed

1243
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:49,520
but for this week this is Richard

1244
00:55:56,110 --> 00:55:51,710
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1245
00:56:01,380 --> 00:55:58,480
you've been listening to the skeptic

1246
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:01,390
zone podcast please visit our website at

1247
00:56:11,580 --> 00:56:08,090
wwlp.com tax and to access the bat

1248
00:56:14,230 --> 00:56:11,590
catalog of episodes going back to 2008

1249
00:56:17,530 --> 00:56:14,240
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1250
00:56:19,810 --> 00:56:17,540
on twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1251
00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:19,820
facebook page or leave a review on

1252
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:20,710
itunes

1253
00:56:26,770 --> 00:56:23,810
you can also support the skeptic zone by

1254
00:56:29,490 --> 00:56:26,780
a patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1255
00:56:31,870 --> 00:56:29,500
podcast is an independent production

1256
00:56:33,970 --> 00:56:31,880
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1257
00:56:36,340 --> 00:56:33,980
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1258
00:56:51,010 --> 00:56:36,350
of Australian skeptics or any other

1259
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:51,020
skeptical organization hello to those

1260
00:56:54,580 --> 00:56:52,850
people who listen after the music the

1261
00:56:57,130 --> 00:56:54,590
afterthoughts will play the dice game in

1262
00:57:01,600 --> 00:56:57,140
a minute but it's henriette the cats

1263
00:57:04,990 --> 00:57:01,610
come in and she loves to have yes her

1264
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:05,000
back scratched with a plastic novelty

1265
00:57:13,870 --> 00:57:08,930
back scratcher and shoehorn in one who

1266
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:13,880
you are yeah you don't help me play the

1267
00:57:20,130 --> 00:57:18,050
dice game hmm we can do that where is it

1268
00:57:23,470 --> 00:57:20,140
alright I've got my six-sided die here

1269
00:57:26,740 --> 00:57:23,480
and the object of the game is for you at

1270
00:57:31,180 --> 00:57:26,750
home or in the car or wherever you are

1271
00:57:34,810 --> 00:57:31,190
to predict by whatever means you think

1272
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:34,820
you can the outcome of me rolling this

1273
00:57:40,510 --> 00:57:37,280
diet I'm gonna roll it three times it's

1274
00:57:42,550 --> 00:57:40,520
it's the alien one from our from Roswell

1275
00:57:45,940 --> 00:57:42,560
New Mexico or no it's from Albuquerque

1276
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:45,950
in the spirit of Roswell New Mexico it

1277
00:57:51,100 --> 00:57:48,160
has an alien on it and spaceships and

1278
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:51,110
what are you doing you may help me here

1279
00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:53,570
ready here we go we're gonna roll it for

1280
00:57:57,330 --> 00:57:55,310
the first time use your predicting power

1281
00:58:02,620 --> 00:57:57,340
1 out of 6 chance

1282
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:02,630
gimme gimme unit cats and the first

1283
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:07,250
number on the floor is for number 4 come

1284
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:09,770
here you'll have a look at this die and

1285
00:58:17,890 --> 00:58:15,890
though ok second number she's

1286
00:58:20,140 --> 00:58:17,900
investigating it now sniffing it what do

1287
00:58:23,100 --> 00:58:20,150
you say honey she's batting it with

1288
00:58:24,820 --> 00:58:23,110
their poor number four to fours in a row

1289
00:58:28,450 --> 00:58:24,830
ok ready

1290
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:28,460
last one last one here it comes

1291
00:58:37,660 --> 00:58:34,010
look out hey knee number three said this